I mean over the past 20-40 years graduate medical education has already improved to be less toxic and less grueling than before. During my residency, I did two full years of research and obtained a masters degree. I legit don't know how people do general surgery residency I'm finishing up my 4th and final week on general surgery, and I don't know how the residents do it. The best residency for pathology, or any specialty, is very driven by personal preference and situation. better have >240 USMLE, honors, research to get serious consideration). “General surgery residency training can be challenging at times but what makes it worthwhile, fun and memorable are the relationships you form with your colleagues during training years.” Do residents have time for a personal life? Similarly to internal medicine, general surgery is also the gateway to a lot of subspecialties. Why H1-Bs are Harder to Find. If you suspect general surgery, or any surgical subspecialty might interest you, we recommend trying to schedule this core general surgery rotation as early in the third year as possible. Honestly, if you're already worrying about lifestyle, one of the lifestyle unfriendly specialties may not be for you. Vanderbilt, Emory, UTSW, Louisville, UVA, Wisconsin, Northwestern, U Chicago, Beth Israel, Columbia, Cornell, NYU, UCLA, Stanford, Washington, OHSU to name a few. And we are looking for people we can spend five years with. The … Residency for any surgical speciality is going to be hell, but at least the above mentioned ones aren’t hell once you’re done, unlike general surgery. Interesting! In our opinion, it's the best. I want to know the best books for reference during my General Surgery Residency. In order to handle the long hours, stress, and physical requirements of the profession, work to avoid diving into residency such that it becomes 100% of your time and energy spent. I second this. This may mean better operating opportunities perhaps (no residents have offered this to me as a positive actually) but it also means much less protected time off. How close you are to family, loved ones, the type of training environment, the opportunities available are all things to take into consideration above and beyond name recognition of a program. Get honors on your clerkships, especially surgery (there are many programs that simply won't interview you without an H in surgery...tough but it is what it is). of having to waking up at 4:00 am everyday to get to the hospital to make the list and staying until 6-7PM every night. MGH, Brigham and Womens, Johns Hopkins, Penn, Michigan, and UCSF are the traditionally most competitive program (Source: John Tarpley, longest tenured PD in general surgery) There are 20-30 programs that would be considered highly competitive by any objective standard (i.e. Currently interviewing for Diagnostic Radiology I definitely made the right choice. wince. Surgery specialties often attract people that are self-driven, routined and regulated, and on the downside, sometimes emotionally detached. To compile it, every 2 years, the NRMP surveys every single residency program director. It’s called the NRMP Residency Program Director Survey. She gets home around 8 pm and passes out shortly after. 167 general surgery residency program director jobs available. General Surgery is a highly competitive specialty which demands a high level of excellence and dedication from residency applicants who are interested in becoming a surgeon. surgical oncology at Dana Farber) are considered weak because the clear emphasis is on the residency training. But what I've noticed at my current program vs. the program where I went to medical school is that residencies can vary widely in terms of how many hospitals they cover, and this seems, as an outsider, to directly impact your experience and workload as a resident, both positively and negatively. Try a subspeciality like ENT, ortho, urology, plastics. Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore offers the best clinical training in internal medicine, according to Doximity's 2018-2019 Residency Navigator.. The funny thing is most gen surg people I know would call working from 4AM to 6PM (84 hr week) decent lifestyle. Once a medical school has been successfully completed the graduate school experience begins in the form of a residency, which focuses on a particular medical specialty. I really like general surgery and I'm thinking of applying to the specialty. What to do as a med student? The well-being of our residents is a priority of the Ohio State Department of Surgery. It’s exhausting, to say the least. If you start a case that you think will take one hour and it winds up taking eight hours, you still finish the job and get it right the first time. The doximity list, while heavily debated, at least gives you a very good starting point if not an exact tiered ranking. At these top programs your LORs matter a LOT and should be from academically connected, tenured faculty. There are varying disputes on the quality of training that they give, but I tend to feel that the people trying to knock the top programs are doing so from a schadenfreude/anti-intellectualism/jealousy perspective more than anything else. If surgery is the only thing that will make you happy going to work every day, then do surgery. Thanks! Is it typically academic=7 years (2 research) and community=5 years (no research)? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. As a followup, say that my school does not have the necessary connections. General surgery is known for an intense residency: 30 hour calls and four days off in a month. General Surgery Residency. To improve your application - get great letters of recommendation, do as best you can on the step1&2, do something with a leadership position, and during your interview be someone who they can picture themselves working with. She likes to work out, this means that she usually wakes up at 3:00 am so she can be at the hospital by 4:30. Since I know that I wholeheartedly want to become a surgeon, the long work hours don’t bother me. How is landing a general surgery residency more difficult? “For students who are time-oriented, there’s nothing wrong with that, but Surgery probably isn’t for you. Keep in mind that some of the most competitive surgery residencies are also the most malignant, so be aware of that. This means the chiefs on each service are basically on call in-house or on home call nearly every day, as the residents are spread so thin. The great news is that we have the exact means to read program directors’ minds. There are 20-30 programs that would be considered highly competitive by any objective standard (i.e. Or is that not necessarily the case either? Because objectively they are the most competitive. What are my options then? So glad I got placed at a site that gives straight 3/5s to everyone who rotates there... New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the SurgicalResidency community. A lot of students want the prestige that comes with the name of the university program, but when it comes to ranking programs, rank where you want to go based off how you think you will fit within the program. Surgery residency is universally long hours for 5 years, lots of stress, lots of long days. Residents graduate confident and very competent in high acuity/pressure situations. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Something to consider. Only 13% of applications receive an interview. It's one thing to think you can power through a few years of residency. Why should they be desired? Surgery residency is universally long hours for 5 years, lots of stress, lots of long days. I understand you to have a sacrifice some surgical skill vs. hours in the hospital, but I see the balding senior residents and the grey hairs and I wonder if I can make it though with those hours for 5 years. Why are they considered the most competitive? As such, this is often the the biggest hurdle in residency applications. Residency Navigator gives medical students a transparent look into U.S. medical residency programs, powered by over 315,000 peer nominations, ratings and hand-written reviews. It's generally understood that you need to be at the top of your game to match into a surgical residency. Future medical professionals interested in performing operations will focus on surgery during their studies. Also keep in mind that the top programs usually have fellows! In the integrated programs the student enters a plastic surgery residency as a PGY1 but must still complete the prerequisite general surgery requirements specified by the ABPS and is “loaned out” to the various general surgery services to complete these requirements. General Surgery training is five years and serves as a gateway to a number of advanced surgical specialties such as Orthopedic Surgery or Vascular Surgery. And again as I alluded to above, the people who tend to claim these programs are malignant or don't allow as much autonomy generally have no direct experience, just an ego-driven desire to tear down the "top" places out of a sense of schadenfreude or jealousy. Using the information provided by NRMP’s® Results and Data 2020 Main Residency Match®, we were able to figure out which medical specialties had the highest percentage of US and Non-US IMGs in the positions filled for each specialty from last year’s Match. Residency Search Links of Interest For many years, Kaj Johansen, MD, FACS, and David Heimbach, MD, FACS, of the Department of Surgery at the University of Washington, Seattle, provided the "little red book" as a resource to medical students who were applying for residency programs in general surgery. My roommate is a general surgery resident. We are bound by the EU wide european working time directive rules. These rotations are under the direction of the urology residency program director and include general surgery, surgical rotations, critical care, vascular surgery… Johns Hopkins is one of the best hospitals in the country. The best residency for vascular surgery, or any specialty, is very driven by personal preference and situation. That's a more complex question. Unfortunately, I feel like these changes are too far away to affect us. Get started by searching 12,000 medical residency and fellowship programs on the AMA's FREIDA database. Are you in an academic or community program? How close you are to family, loved ones, the type of training environment, the opportunities available are all things to take into consideration above and … I'm an anesthesia resident so don't know about competitiveness. Many surgical residents do further surgical subspecialty training, however. With a surgical program, you have a very close interrelationship with the attendings and other residents, just by the nature of the specialty. MGH, BW, Hopkins, Michigan in particular are considered very "fellow light" programs and their fellowships that they do have (e.g. The program has a great board pass rate of 94% and is one of the most competitive and thorough programs. I'm a competitive applicant, blah blah blah. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the medicalschool community. I've said this and so have many others: if you can find anything you would be happy doing that isn't surgery, do that. If you're competitive enough for a more lifestyle-friendly field, and you have any interest in one... think hard about choosing something that will still have you regularly getting up in the middle of the night ten, twenty years from now. Would you agree or disagree to this statement? High volume oral surgery/airway tumor surgery service yields plenty of difficult airway experience/fiberoptic intubations. That means you can be competing for cases with the fellow as a resident, and it can decrease the number of cases you do. These programs tend to be heavily academic with good fellowship placements and job prospects. There's no time for exercise, errands, sleep, etc. You have to figure out what it is and decide if it's worth it to you. Welcome to /r/MedicalSchool: An international community for medical students. They have great specialty areas and they focus on innovation and a commitment to excellence. It requires a lawyer to fill out forms. How close you are to family, loved ones, the type of training environment, the opportunities available are all things to take into consideration above and beyond name recognition of a program. I trained at an academic/University general surgical residency program and am now in training at another heavily academic center as a fellow. This was me a year ago. Press J to jump to the feed. This list is part of a series of articles about the best books for medical students. better have >240 USMLE, honors, research to get serious consideration). Cape Fear Valley Residency Program in Fayetteville, NC. I'm sure that you could probably have some control over your hours later, but to me it seems like the insane work hours are just a part of the culture. It will be a balance of $ vs life/mental health. Its all up to what u chose. They also have one of the best residency training programs. I am also interested in surgery and find myself coming to the same decision point. Edit: Obviously, you must be willing to go through gen surg to get to these fellowships. General surgery residency starts in the PGY1 year and is five years in total. Some of the gen surg specialties are good for lifestyle too, like breast and colorectal. She acts like her life-style isn't bad. New general surgery residency program director careers are added daily on SimplyHired.com. Excellent track record for fellowship matching (Cardiac, Pedi, Critical...” – Posted 11/10/2020 My colleagues are miserable, and we have one of the most “Cush” surgery intern years around. this is 5-7 years of your life. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Interesting, thank you for your direct answer to the question. As such, it does not place an onus on the residency programs except for filling out and certifying forms. Are u dead set on the US of A? The higher up the better. The amount of work hours deters many people from picking surgery. Knock your boards out of the park. So when it comes to that which ones are considered as "chill" ? This is not really the case. The best residency for general surgery, or any specialty, is very driven by personal preference and situation. I loled. That's how surgery is. Should the desire to stay in a certain city or at a certain institution influence your specialty/sub choice at all? Where I'm a resident, the surgery program sends residents to 6 hospitals, vs. 3 at my med school. Objective: The release of general surgery residency program rankings by Doximity and U.S. News & World Report accentuates the need to define and establish measurable standards of program quality. The goal of this subreddit is to provide a place to vent, seek/provide help, and bounce ideas off each other. If there is any hesitation, DO NOT do surgery. There hasn't been another specialty where I've felt like I belong and I'm more than half way done with third year. Click on the Med School Books Main Page to see other lists including the best books for each year in medical school, the best books for each clinical rotation, and the best books for USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3.. chasing the name). See salaries, compare reviews, easily apply, and get hired. Additionally, the residency must reportedly prove they were unable to get a qualified US citizen to fill that job. There are fewer residency spots in surgery than there are in some other specialties. They still work almost twice as much as I do. Can you tell me what is the "hell" part of general surgery? If surgery is the only thing that will make you happy going to work every day, then do surgery. If more lifestyle-conscious people go into the field, I feel like there is a chance that it might change eventually. (And I don't think there are any lifestyle friendly surgery residencies, that just sounds like an oxymoron.) Some would argue they are simply competitive for competition/prestige sake (i.e. And if I want to be competitive for a fellowship spot, I assume I should plan on doing a 7-year residency? My general surgery program was done at a quaternary referral center with ~1000 beds and a Level 1 trauma center. The H1-B is more difficult for residency programs. Ranked in 2020, part of Best Medical Schools. “Busiest trauma center in the Northeast. U could try for the UK, or anywhere else in europe if u seek “decent” work hours. Are there programs with a little more of a balance, say like 5AM-4PM? My schedule has been 65-85 hours a week depending on if I have call, but it seems like the residents are always there later than us. Any thoughts, plz help a lost M3? Looking for the right medical residency? The first year internship is spent in general surgery at Oregon Health & Science University Hospital and affiliated Portland VA Medical Center. The low-stress way to find your next general surgery residency program director job opportunity is on SimplyHired. If you want a chill lifestyle, do not go into a specialty that does not have a chill lifestyle. The best residency for orthopaedic surgery, or any specialty, is very driven by personal preference and situation. You could try Emergency Medicine, Radiology, Anesthesia, or an office-based specialty like Dermatology if you like procedures but are time-oriented.”. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Yes, I understand this, but to my understanding, if one wishes to subspecialize, that person is better off going to an academic, well established program. However, I'm don't like the psychological/emotional effects (i.e., burnout, depression etc.) It is another thing entirely to be out of training and still dealing with call all night and working the next day - you REALLY have to love what you do to make that feel even remotely worth it. Start working on research early and build connections in the field. Or is that not always the case? Massachusetts General Hospital; Mayo Clinic College of Medicine and Science (Arizona) Mayo Clinic College of Medicine and Science (Jacksonville) Mayo Clinic College of Medicine and Science (Rochester) McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University; McLaren Health Care/Greater Lansing/MSU; McLaren Health Care/Macomb/MSU R/SurgicalResidency is a place for anyone who is currently in a surgical residency, recent grads, staff, and medical students. I will be pushed to my limits and then some. If you want to receive a coveted spot in one of the most competitive specialties, which tend to have the highest average annual salaries, where you go to … Something a vascular surgery attending once told me as a student: “Surgeons are very task oriented people. Every specialty has a tradeoff. my rank list had nothing to do with prestige or competitiveness. Thank you for your input. Now in residency you will also have off rotation months where you may not work nearly as much, but you'll definitely have many months of late nights with early mornings. How close you are to family, loved ones, the type of training environment, the opportunities available are all things to take into consideration above and beyond name recognition of a program. Cape Fear Valley Health System’s residency programs are designed to provide the highest quality residency programs that will provide each trainee a foundation for lifelong learning while fulfilling the accrediting bodies … If so... Why not work In AUS or the EU? But I can tell she hates it. What would you say are the differences between an academic vs a community surgical program? you want a program where you will be trained well, and where you want to work 80 hours a week. MGH, Brigham and Womens, Johns Hopkins, Penn, Michigan, and UCSF are the traditionally most competitive program (Source: John Tarpley, longest tenured PD in general surgery). However, it can also mean that you will be first-assisting with the fellow as a teaching case, which will be a good thing. Time is less important to us. there are many programs that simply won't interview you without an H in surgery...tough but it is what it is. Would you be willing to pay 100K to 200K tobe a gen surgeon with a healthy life style? 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